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Do you wrestle to know the guide of Revelation? This episode of the Radically Christian Bible Research Podcast addresses the widespread issues and misconceptions that folks have when studying the guide of Revelation. Many discover it to be a complicated and scary guide of the Bible. Nonetheless, at the moment’s visitor, Garrett Finest, explains that Revelation doesn’t should be scary and that it’s really a extremely related and inspiring guide for Christians at the moment.
The dialogue delves into the significance of understanding the style and context of Revelation to be able to correctly interpret its symbolism and message. Key biblical ideas explored embody Revelation’s position as prophecy, its connection to the Outdated Testomony, and its central themes of unique allegiance to God and trustworthy witness within the face of cultural strain and battle. The episode goals to equip listeners with a framework for studying Revelation that focuses on its authentic function and software.
Garrett Finest is an affiliate professor and chair of the Division of Bible and Ministry at York College in Nebraska. He initially prevented learning the guide of Revelation, however was finally drawn to it and ended up writing his dissertation on the guide. Finest shares his journey of coming to understand and champion the relevance of Revelation for the church at the moment, offering useful insights for listeners looking for to higher perceive this significant however usually misunderstood biblical textual content.
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Transcript (Credit score: Beth Tabor)
The guide of Revelation doesn’t should be scary. My visitor at the moment will assist you to see how encouraging and related this guide is on your life. My visitor is Garrett Finest, affiliate professor and chair of the Division of Bible and Ministry at York College in Nebraska. It is a deep and wealthy dialog about Revelation. I do know you’re going to take pleasure in it.
However earlier than we get to that, I wish to learn from Revelation 22 that claims, “Then the angel confirmed me the river of the water of life, vibrant as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb by means of the center of the road of the town; additionally, on both aspect of the river, the tree of life with its twelve sorts of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree had been for the therapeutic of the nations. Not will there be something accursed, however the throne of God and of the Lamb can be in it, and his servants will worship him. They’ll see his face, and his identify can be on their foreheads. And evening can be no extra. They’ll want no mild of lamp or solar, for the Lord God can be their mild, and they’re going to reign ceaselessly and ever.”
I hope that this dialog is encouraging to you and, as all the time, I hope it helps all of us study to like like Jesus.
WES: Garrett Finest, welcome to the podcast, Brother.
GARRETT: Thanks a lot.
WES: Properly, thanks for being right here. I’m extremely enthusiastic about having you on the podcast for the primary time, but in addition simply speaking about Revelation. That is a type of books that it both fascinates folks or horrifies folks, and possibly someplace in between. Earlier than we actually even soar into it, why don’t you inform us how you bought taken with a guide like Revelation.
GARRETT: Yeah. So I, like several good Christian, spent my complete life avoiding it, which I really feel like that’s what you’re imagined to do, proper? And so I used to be ‑‑ I’m attempting to assume again. I imply, as I used to be rising up in church, if we talked about something from Revelation, it was the seven letters to the seven church buildings from chapters 2 or 3, however any of the opposite stuff, we simply didn’t know what to do with, and so I don’t bear in mind ever having a category on it or having something in church in regards to the guide of Revelation.
So I did a Bible main, an undergrad, and by no means took a category in Revelation; I went and did a Masters of Divinity at one other establishment and by no means took a category on Revelation, and so I managed to get all of those levels and by no means learn the guide. After which I get to a PhD program the place I meant to check the Gospels and possibly Acts, and there was a selected professor that I already knew I needed to have on my dissertation committee, so I used to be form of pressured to take no matter was being supplied. And so I’m going to register for courses one semester, and the one course that was ‑‑ New Testomony course that was being supplied was Revelation, and I believed, you’ve got to be kidding me. And this professor ‑‑ you’d in all probability know the identify, Craig Keener ‑‑ has written a commentary on the guide of Revelation and is essentially the most good scholar, I believe, on the market ‑‑ or a minimum of considered one of them. And so I used to be so nervous, and so I used to be thrown into the fireplace to should, like, make up for a lifetime of avoiding Revelation in that class, and so I had to determine one thing to put in writing on. Like I needed to ‑‑ we needed to write a paper for the category, so I ended up selecting a subject. I wrote the paper, and when the professor got here handy the papers again to us, he mentioned, “All of you probably did nice. You probably did fantastic, acquired good grades, however there’s two of you that I wrote in your paper you’ve acquired to maintain going with this.” And I get my paper again, and it says, “You’ve acquired to maintain going with this,” and I mentioned, you’ve acquired to be kidding me. Like I can’t get away from this guide, ?
And in order that ended up resulting in writing my dissertation on the guide of Revelation, and now I’ve been transformed and I’m a believer. I actually do consider that that is the guide that we’d like for, like, our cultural second proper now. And proper after I took my exams, the pandemic hit, and we had folks at our church, , saying carrying a masks is the mark of the beast and these kinds of issues, and so it simply turned very actual for me. And God works in mysterious methods, and I’ve simply seen how main me to Revelation was form of a type of mysterious methods he’s labored in my life.
WES: Yeah. I like the way it lastly caught as much as you however you’re glad that it did.
GARRETT: Completely.
WES: Let me ask this: What’s it about Revelation that makes it so mysterious, seemingly inaccessible, that folks wish to keep away from it and don’t wish to dig into it? What’s it in regards to the specific sort of literature or the way in which that it’s written that makes it troublesome for Christians to learn?
GARRETT: Certain. I’ve to inform you one thing {that a} good good friend of mine, John Younger, shared with me as soon as. He mentioned, “If anybody ever comes as much as you at church and says that they actually wish to train the guide of Revelation, by no means allow them to train the guide of Revelation,” as a result of, for some motive, this guide actually
offers us two form of reverse responses. On the one hand, we simply keep away from it as a result of we don’t know what to do with it; however however, I believe one more reason we keep away from it’s it’s attracted a sure sort of individual to this guide who is available in and truly thinks they know every thing about it and has all these secrets and techniques that they’ll divulge to you about what’s going to occur within the upcoming election and what the battle with Israel and Gaza means, , and the way it’s associated to the guide of Revelation.
And so we see these, like, actually polar reverse ‑‑ simply excessive avoidance or simply overwhelming curiosity ‑‑ and we form of simply ‑‑ it’s simply simpler to not speak about it. I believe there’s a pair causes for that. One is that once we speak about Revelation, we’re speaking a few specific style of literature, and, really, the style that we name it’s ‑‑ we name it apocalypsis, or an apocalyptic work. And the identify of that complete class of literature really comes from Revelation 1:1, the apocalypsis of Jesus Christ, the revelation, the revealing of Jesus Christ.
And style is so essential for decoding a piece, something. So proper now my son and I are studying The Hobbit at evening collectively, and if I begin a piece and it says, “As soon as upon a time,” I’m not going to depart that studying and go fear that there’s actually, like, dragons on the market. And it’s that phrase, “as soon as upon a time,” that tells me I’m participating in fiction right here. If we watch a fiction film in the identical method that we do a documentary, then we’re going to be actually misplaced and actually confused and actually scared, really.
And so style is so essential once we’re decoding one thing, and on the subject of Revelation, it’s really a style that we don’t encounter. We don’t see very many apocalyptic texts as a result of, exterior of the guide of Revelation, a minimum of in our Bibles, there’s just one different part, it’s the second half of Daniel, so Daniel 7‑12, that we’d name apocalyptic. After which there are a number of subsections, like Isaiah 24‑27 is known as the little apocalypse, and you’ve got Zechariah 12‑14 and Joel 3, so you may have these minor sections right here and there. However even within the guide of Daniel, like in the event you had been to ask your viewers, they in all probability know fairly a bit in regards to the three younger males within the furnace and Daniel within the lion’s den, however as soon as we get to 7 by means of 12, that part’s like ‑‑ keep away from that; it’s a distinct form of factor.
However what I like to inform folks is about 200 years on both aspect of the guide of Revelation, so from about 200 BC to 200 AD, we’ve about 37 apocalypses which have survived, so the Jews knew the best way to learn this. They’d apocalypses: First Enoch, Second Enoch, Second Baruch, Fourth Ezra, Apocalypse of Abraham. Christians beloved apocalyptic texts, as properly. Actually, one of many earliest literatures that Christians love that isn’t within the New Testomony is The Shepherd of Hermas, which is an apocalyptic textual content. And so Christians and Jews, across the time of the writing of Revelation, knew the best way to learn this style, and we simply don’t, and that is among the causes that we, I believe, have a tough time with it, which is why we’d like nerdy folks to come back in and browse these different apocalypses and see how they work and work out form of how this style works so it is going to assist us perceive and interpret the guide of Revelation. In order that’s one motive I might say. After which, while you do this, what you see is that the opposite apocalypses, they convey profound messages however they do it by means of issues like symbolism, by means of pictures, by means of drawing on myths which can be on the market by means of using like symbolic numbers and issues like that, and so I believe the style subject is an enormous subject for us.
A second motive that I believe we actually wrestle with the guide of Revelation is as a result of, of each New Testomony textual content, there are extra allusions to the Outdated Testomony within the guide of Revelation than some other. It’s ‑‑ I inform my college students, if we took Revelation and rang it out, it might simply drip with Outdated Testomony textual content. And right here’s the factor about it, there’s not a single citation of the Outdated Testomony. There’s no quotes. So whereas within the Gospel of Matthew, “This was executed to meet,” , after which it has a quote, there’s none of these in Revelation. And so the numbers of the allusions really varies fairly wildly, the place you may have some who would put the quantity round 300, and you’ve got some that will place the quantity as excessive as 600. In 22 chapters, we’ve a whole bunch of allusions to the Outdated Testomony, so that you would possibly even acknowledge a few of these, however Balaam and Jezebel within the letters to the seven church buildings; Babylon is a serious allusion in there; even Armageddon, , that will get plenty of press with Revelation. Properly, Armageddon is Har Megiddo, which is an Outdated Testomony metropolis that reveals up in references everywhere in the Outdated Testomony. And so, in the identical method that you’ve Jezebel, you may have a reference to an historic metropolis that’s talked about everywhere in the Outdated Testomony, Megiddo.
One other occasion can be, once we look in Revelation 4, you’ve acquired these 4 creatures which have a face like a lion, an ox, an eagle, and a person. These creatures come straight out of Ezekiel 1. We get all bent off form in regards to the quantity 666 and the mark of the beast and this concept of being marked on the brow. Properly, that idea of being marked on the brow comes straight out of Ezekiel chapter 9, so it’s like every thing in Revelation that we wrestle with ‑‑ nearly nothing in Revelation is new; it’s all from the Outdated Testomony, and I simply discover that the majority Christians ‑‑ we don’t know our Outdated Testaments, and so one of many issues that we wrestle with is a lot of that is depending on the Outdated Testomony, and we don’t understand it.
After which the third motive can be, that is addressed to seven church buildings in Asia Minor within the first century, and that was a really completely different tradition than our personal. It was a really completely different world than our personal that was coping with sure circumstances that they might have identified about. However we’re form of studying another person’s mail, in a way, and since we don’t know the world of the primary century or we don’t perceive first‑century Asia Minor, I believe that causes us a bit little bit of issue in decoding the guide. So, yeah, that will simply be some common issues. It is a distinctive guide in our Bible as a result of it’s apocalyptic style; it’s saturated in Outdated Testomony pictures and we’re not as conversant in our Outdated Testomony as possibly we want we had been or was once, or no matter that is perhaps the case; after which I believe that it’s written to church buildings in first‑century Asia Minor, and we don’t know that world.
WES: Yeah, yeah. Nice ideas. If any person was going to recover from that hurdle of not desirous to method this guide they usually had been going to check it, possibly they’re doing their Bible studying all year long they usually’re attending to Revelation in some unspecified time in the future afterward on this yr or possibly they’re simply wanting to check it, do a deep dive into Revelation, what can be among the pitfalls that you just’d wish to warn folks forward of time, to say, “Hey, while you’re studying it, while you’re learning it, watch out of this, or look out for this, or right here’s some widespread errors that folks make once they’re studying it,” and assist them to keep away from a few of that stuff?
GARRETT: Certain. I believe one of the simplest ways to reply that query is ‑‑ I simply mentioned that it’s actually essential to interpret the guide by style, and so I believe that the largest pitfalls that we fall into will not be decoding the guide in line with a style. And so if I had been answering that, I might say I believe that we’d like to consider the style of Revelation to be able to interpret it properly. And what’s fascinating in regards to the style of Revelation is it’s form of a combination a bit bit. So, first, it is rather clear that Revelation is a letter written to seven church buildings in Asia Minor. It begins with an epistolary pre‑script, and it form of ends like a letter does. I imply, if we examine it to the letters of Paul, it begins with an handle to the viewers; it concludes with this sort of blessing. Then, in fact, you may have, in chapters 2 and three, these seven oracles ‑‑ I name them oracles ‑‑ however oracles to the seven church buildings. So it’s very clearly this like contextualized message to these seven church buildings.
And so, with that in thoughts, then, I believe the pitfall will not be decoding it as a message to these seven church buildings, and so I believe as a result of we don’t know what else to do with the guide, we simply should do what we as Individuals love to do, which is make all of it about us as a result of we simply don’t know what else to do. And that’s form of what our preliminary impulse is once we learn scripture, is what does this imply for me? And so we ‑‑ that’s simply ‑‑ and I believe that’s form of a pitfall.
And so I used to be simply this week studying ‑‑ I simply noticed an article, and someway I missed this, and I’m truthfully not unhappy that I missed it, but it surely was in some newspaper in Arkansas and it was a preacher who had written this text about whether or not ‑‑ it was round an election season. It was whether or not President Obama was the Antichrist, and that was the title of the paper. Properly, the paper really needed to publish and recant their title and subject an apology as a result of the creator acquired upset as a result of he really didn’t argue that Obama was the Antichrist; he argued whether or not Obama was the seventh king of Revelation 17, and they also had been having this again‑and‑forth, . However I inform my college students, I say, “If no matter your interpretation of the guide is wouldn’t have made sense to somebody sitting in Pergamum within the first century, it’s in all probability not proper,” and I believe that not nearly Revelation, I believe that about Paul’s letters, too. I believe that in regards to the Gospels. I believe we’ve to first interpret them as messages to their authentic audiences earlier than we are able to type of ask what they imply for us. So that will be one pitfall, will not be really taking into consideration that that is written to these seven church buildings.
The second pitfall that I believe that we make is the letters ‑‑ Revelation will not be solely a letter, it’s additionally a prophecy. So in chapter 1, verse 3; in chapter 22, verse 7, 10, 18, and 19, it refers to itself as “the phrases of the guide of the prophecy.” It calls itself a guide of prophecy. In chapter 10, verse 11, the creator says his God‑given calling is to prophesy, and in chapter 22, verse 9, the creator describes himself as form of being in a circle of prophets in Asia Minor within the first century. And so it’s very clearly a prophetic guide and so we’ve to interpret it, then, as a prophecy, and I believe the pitfall is that we are likely to equate prophecy with future‑telling, after I assume prophecy is extra precisely understood as forth‑telling. And so as a result of John has so saturated this work and truly even structured ‑‑ I don’t know if individuals are conscious of this, however your entire guide of Revelation is structured after the guide of Ezekiel. I don’t know if folks knew this. The entire construction is like Ezekiel, and it is sensible that John would see himself like Ezekiel. So Ezekiel is a prophet who’s in exile. Properly, the place is John? Ezekiel begins off by saying, “I’m on, , this ‑‑ by the River Kebar.” Properly, John says, “I’m additionally by a physique of water; I’m out right here on this island.” You realize, Ezekiel says, “I noticed visions of heaven.” Properly, John says, “I noticed visions of heaven” to people who find themselves in exile, who’re dwelling in Babylon. And so, I believe John says, “I’m doing the identical factor Ezekiel did.” Properly, what did Ezekiel do? The prophets within the Outdated Testomony will not be merely telling the longer term. There may be some future‑telling components to what they do, however that’s not all that they did. Actually, what they’re doing is that they’re forth‑telling God’s fact to the powers that be. They’re delivering oracles to the powers that be. Generally these oracles are given in the direction of God’s personal folks, Israel, however more often than not they’re really towards Babylon and Assyria and Egypt and Tyre and people different nations which can be on the market. They’re talking fact to energy.
And so, I believe, as we learn the guide of Revelation, if we’re going to interpret it properly, to know that the guide is supposed to be prophecy and that it isn’t meant to simply be like telling issues which can be going to occur method off sooner or later in Russia or Gaza, , in 2024, but it surely’s talking fact to energy in its personal day, and on this case, the goal appears to be Babylon. Properly, Babylon is an fascinating factor within the guide of Revelation. It’s known as “the good metropolis.” It’s used a number of occasions. We have now one other fascinating reference in 1 Peter 5:13, the place it looks as if, in one other New Testomony guide, the town of Rome is form of known as Babylon, in order that appears to be a theme there. However we even have another apocalypses, like Fourth Ezra and Second Baruch, that seek advice from Rome as Babylon, so this appears to be a factor that apocalyptists had been used to doing, is drawing a connection between Rome and Babylon as the key world energy. And it definitely is sensible, if that is written after 70, when similar to Babylon did in 586, Rome has executed within the destruction of Jerusalem within the temple in 70. I believe there are simply clear references within the guide of Revelation that Babylon is Rome. So in chapter 17, verse 9, “she is seated on seven hills” ‑‑ properly, this can be a image that everybody would have identified of the Goddess Roma seated on the seven hills. That is actually printed on their cash. And what’s the metropolis set on seven hills? It’s Rome. So I believe there’s simply clear indications that Rome ‑‑ and so similar to Ezekiel did in his day, John is talking fact to energy, and I believe that we’ve missed one thing in regards to the guide once we don’t perceive its prophetic spirit.
After which the third factor ‑‑ so letter, prophecy; third one is apocalypse. After we perceive that it’s utilizing symbols and imagery to show, then we’re decoding it properly. And what I discover occurs plenty of occasions is that it’s very clear that the guide is utilizing numbers on this symbolic method. You realize, “seven” is completion and perfection, and “4” is a vital quantity. And anytime you see “twelve,” it’s the folks of God, just like the twelve tribes or the twelve apostles. However then we get to the quantity 666 and we simply lose our minds. We see that point appears to work in uncommon methods, however then we get to the 1,000 years and we lose our minds. And so it’s type of shedding sight of how apocalyptic imagery and symbolism works. I believe that’s a method that we find yourself doing this.
And I believe John really ‑‑ even in the event you’ve by no means learn one other apocalypse, John really trains us in that first chapter on what he’s doing with this imagery. So, for instance, he says, , he sees seven lampstands, and at any time when we learn that we simply go, what’s he speaking about? What are the lampstands? He says, , in his proper hand he has seven stars. And we simply go, what is that this? I don’t know what to do with this. Properly, in verse 20 of chapter 1, he says, “I noticed the seven stars in the precise hand, and the seven stars are the angels of the seven church buildings and the seven lampstands are the church buildings.” He’s type of supplying you with a clue, everytime you see this imagery, regardless of the picture is, regardless of the image is, you must be asking, what does this symbolize? What does this imply? What does it stand for?
And so I believe once we neglect to interpret it like a letter, once we neglect to interpret it as prophecy, talking fact to energy, and once we neglect that we’re imagined to be decoding it in line with the methods that you’d interpret the symbolism of an apocalypse, I believe we get misplaced. And I don’t know if you wish to speak about this ‑‑ I’ll depart this as much as you ‑‑ however, I imply, I believe the principle method that that is being form of drawn into our tradition proper now’s by means of these Left Behind readings, by means of, , Hal Lindsey and Late Nice Planet Earth. I imply, when Kirk Cameron and when Nicolas Cage are starring in Left Behind films, I believe that is type of dominating the form of cultural perspective on what’s occurring within the guide, and, to me, all of these readings solely occur if you’re not decoding it as a letter and a prophecy and the way in which that I believe first‑century apocalypses must be interpreted.
WES: Yeah. Properly, I believe I believe that there’s each people who learn Revelation that method, type of that premillennial dispensationalism and adopting that type of Left Behind mentality and studying the newspaper in a single hand and the guide of Revelation within the different hand, however then I believe that there are such a lot of folks, particularly in our fellowship, who keep away from Revelation as a result of they’ve discovered to interpret it and simply say, properly, , it’s a ‑‑ , a “scary guide,” quote‑unquote. We’ll get to that in a second, however they have a look at it they usually say, “But it surely’s all ‑‑ it’s all executed. Like that has nothing to do with us now.” And I believe that possibly there’s an overreaction that route, and we type of lose the relevance for ‑‑ what relevance does it have for us now?
However let’s form of speak about what was the relevance then? I believe that so many individuals learn Revelation they usually simply say, “That’s a terrifying guide.” I all the time inform folks, “For those who’re scared while you end studying Revelation, you in all probability didn’t learn it appropriately as a result of it’s not imagined to be scary.” However what’s the level? Like in the event you had been a Christian in Asia Minor and also you had been a part of considered one of these church buildings, particularly one of many trustworthy church buildings that’s receiving this revelation, this revealing, this apocalypse, what had been you imagined to get out of it? What was imagined to be the applying of it within the first century?
GARRETT: Yeah. So I mentioned earlier the one half I believe I ever heard anyone speak about had been these seven letters to the seven church buildings in chapters 2 and three, and so most individuals who’ve a minimum of tried to learn the guide or have ever heard the church attempt to handle this have a minimum of heard these seven letters. And I believe we may begin there in speaking about what it’s imagined to do as a result of these seven letters really play a very essential position within the guide of Revelation. So what these seven letters are doing is organising the problems that the remainder of the imaginative and prescient is addressing.
So in chapter 1, you get this unimaginable imaginative and prescient of the exalted Jesus that’s drawing on the Outdated Testomony, Daniel 7 and 10, after which that Jesus is delivering messages to those seven church buildings in Asia Minor. And since all of the church buildings are in Asia Minor, they’re really not that far up the street from each other, and we are able to think about that the conditions in these church buildings are literally form of related. And so what’s going on in a single church is probably going additionally occurring in among the different church buildings, and so let’s take note of what’s happening on the bottom in these seven church buildings. And if we learn these seven oracles very clearly, I believe we see a minimum of three classes of distinct issues that the remainder of the guide is attempting to deal with.
So the very first thing that we see in these seven letters is that there’s battle with outsiders. The church is experiencing battle, and it comes from a few completely different instructions. So within the church in Smyrna and Philadelphia, they’re being slandered, it appears like, by native synagogues, and a minimum of in Smyrna, the synagogue is denouncing them to native authorities as a result of then the Roman officers ‑‑ it says a few of you’re gonna be put into jail for 10 days. Properly, the synagogue has no energy to imprison folks, so that is now the federal government getting concerned on this. However essentially the most excessive instance is in chapter 2, verse 13. Within the metropolis of Pergamum, there’s a man named Antipas that we don’t know something about who was martyred, and so individuals are even shedding their life. And so the battle ranges from, like, slander to being put into jail to even being martyred. And so this can be a large factor that’s occurring within the guide of Revelation, is addressing this battle that the folks of God are feeling from these exterior, and that’s even from different non secular communities, just like the synagogue, but in addition from Roman authorities. In order that’s the very first thing that’s happening.
The second factor that’s happening is there’s a cultural strain to assimilate. And what we see occurring in these church buildings is that there are some named false lecturers. So in Pergamum and Thyatira, we study Balaam and Jezebel. Now, once more, these are two Outdated Testomony names, so it’s not likely their names. It’s simply no matter about Jezebel and Balaam within the Outdated Testomony, you must convey that ahead, , and apply to those two people. And who’re Jezebel and Balaam within the Outdated Testomony? They’re people who find themselves attempting to steer the folks of God astray and attempting to hurt the folks of God. Properly, we even have one other particular person named in chapter 2, verse 15, Nicolas, and there’s a gaggle that follows him, the Nicolaitans, and in Ephesus, we examine a gaggle of false lecturers. So what’s happening with all of those? Properly, John really tells us in Revelation that they’re accused of two issues. They’re educating the Christians to assimilate to tradition, and it mentions two issues, sexual immorality and idolatry.
Now, one of many issues we have to learn about idolatry within the first‑century world, in Asia Minor particularly, is that once we hear “idolatry,” we take into consideration worshiping the gods, and that’s completely part of idolatry. So Zeus and Artemis and all of those folks, Apollo ‑‑ these completely are concerned in idolatry. However a method that idolatry takes a singular form in Asia Minor is that, exterior of the town of Rome, Asia Minor is the seat of emperor worship, and that at nearly any temple of a god or goddess, a deity, you’d have discovered an area imperial cult to the emperor. Now, why is that? This goes all the way in which again to 29 BC, the place the primary imperial cult temple constructed exterior of Rome is constructed within the metropolis of Pergamum. Outdoors of Rome, it’s the middle of emperor worship. There’s one other imperial cult temple in-built 26 AD, and it’s constructed within the metropolis of Smyrna, and there’s one other one which’s in-built 89 to 90 AD, and that’s constructed within the metropolis of Ephesus. Do these sound acquainted ‑‑ Pergamum, Smyrna, and Ephesus? Outdoors of Rome, that is the place the worship of the emperor occurs, and outdoors of these official imperial cult temples, any temple you’d have gone to, to Artemis or any of the others, would have been additionally devoted to an emperor. There would have a minimum of have been a shrine there the place you may worship the emperor, and so Christians appear to be lulled into that. They appear to be lulled in the direction of worship of the emperor, idolatry. They appear to be lulled in the direction of sexual immorality, and so Revelation is talking into that.
After which the third factor that we see in these letters is these church buildings are rising complacent of their religion, and a part of that’s that cultural pull. So in Sardis, he says, “You may have the looks of being alive, however you’re actually useless.” The one which most individuals are in all probability conversant in is Ephesus, “You may have misplaced your old flame.” In Laodicea, they’re really saying, “I’m wealthy; I’ve prospered; I’m in want of nothing.” If there’s something that lulls you into complacency, it’s wealth and ease, and he’s telling Laodicea, “It’s too good. Life is simply too good. You’re form of shedding your zeal and your religion.” So these three issues, I might say, are what’s occurring within the church buildings: battle with outsiders, complacency of their religion, and a strain to assimilate to tradition, and the remainder of the imaginative and prescient responds to that.
And so we’ve a lot we may speak about, however I’ll simply point out two. I’ll simply point out two methods the remainder of the imaginative and prescient responds to that. One is that proper after you may have these seven oracles to the seven church buildings and it lays out these three points which can be occurring on the bottom, what’s the subsequent factor that is available in chapters 4 and 5? It’s the imaginative and prescient of John is invited to look into heaven and there he sees a throne and the one seated on the throne. That phrase “throne” goes to indicate up 47 occasions within the guide. And so the primary imaginative and prescient that you just get is the imaginative and prescient of the throne and the one seated on the throne, and you must look as much as heaven to see it. And I believe the impact of that’s to say, how do you endure? How do you survive being thrown into jail for ten days? How do you survive being martyred like Antipas was? Properly, you do it by trying to the actual throne the place the actual authority lies. You realize, how do you shake folks free who’ve grown complacent of their religion, who’re, like, tempted on Friday evening to go hang around down in Artemis’ temple? Properly, you level them to the one throne that must have their coronary heart and their consideration, that must have their sole allegiance. And so one of many ways in which this guide does that is by calling them again to worship across the true throne and to maintain their eyes on that throne, and as quickly as you’re taking your eyes off of that throne, the place the one seated on the throne is, and the Lamb, then you definately’re going to get in all kinds of bother.
And folks don’t notice there’s really a plot in Revelation. The plot begins in these letters, as a result of within the metropolis of Pergamum, chapter 2, verse 13, Pergamum is the place the place Devil’s throne is. There’s a throne that Devil has arrange and that throne reveals again up in chapter 13. And one of many issues we see in chapter 13 is that considered one of Devil’s handiest methods on this world to get folks to take their eyes off of the throne of the one seated on the throne and the Lamb is to put earthly kings on an earthly throne and to name consideration from the folks of earth to worship round that throne as a substitute of the throne of the one who’s seated on it with the Lamb. And if that’s not a message for our day, ? And so this is among the ways in which Revelation does this.
I imply, one of many causes we love Revelation ‑‑ I might say this guide has had extra impact on our hymns than some other guide within the New Testomony, and within the guide of Revelation there are 15 hymns. Why is there a lot singing? As a result of the guide is about orienting your worship round the place it must be oriented, which is the throne of the one seated on it and the Lamb. And that’s an enormous ‑‑ and so the guide poses this query: What throne are you at? Are you worshipping earlier than that throne, or are you worshipping earlier than Devil’s throne with earthly kings on it? Are you dwelling for Babylon, the place Devil’s throne is about up, or are you dwelling for the New Jerusalem, which is the place God’s throne is? Which world are you dwelling in? Ask that stark query. So a method that it addresses these issues is that this query of who you worship, the place you worship.
The second method that I might point out ‑‑ there are such a lot of issues lets say, however the second I might say is it addresses this query by the theme of trustworthy witness. So the very very first thing that’s mentioned within the guide is in chapter 1, verse 4 and 5. The very very first thing mentioned about Jesus is he’s the trustworthy witness, after which the subsequent trustworthy witness we meet is in chapter 2, verse 13, Antipas. And the way did he be a trustworthy witness? Properly, he gave up his life. After which, within the very middle of the guide ‑‑ and by middle, I imply, actually and figuratively, it’s the very central chapter, chapter 11, and every thing that has been earlier than it’s main as much as chapter 11 and every thing that performs out after it’s taking part in out chapter 11. It’s, I believe, the central message of the guide. We’ve been launched to the scroll and the seven seals have been popped off, one after the other. We’re like, what does this factor say? Properly, chapter 11 is what it says, and what does it say? It’s a message about two witnesses. There’s that phrase once more. And the witnesses ‑‑ the brief model right here ‑‑ have every kind of traits of the folks of God, and the largest attribute I’d level out is it says the 2 witnesses are two lampstands. There’s our phrase once more that we simply ‑‑ John advised us in 1:20 what to do once we hear about lampstands. It’s the church.
I believe the decision in chapter 11 is for the folks studying this guide. It’s for us. It’s for Christians. What are we imagined to be? Similar to Antipas, we’re imagined to be trustworthy witnesses in our world. Witnesses to what? Witnesses to unique allegiance to the one who’s seated on the throne and to the Lamb. And we fail in that calling once we take our eyes off of that throne and misplace our worship. And so the decision of the guide is, who’re you worshiping? And wherever you’re planted, no matter metropolis you’re in, you’re imagined to be a trustworthy witness to the one seated on the throne and to the Lamb. And that’s type of two methods I believe that this guide addresses these church buildings.
You realize, there may be plenty of judgment within the guide. There’s additionally plenty of hope within the guide, and I believe the message to these Christians is, to these of you which can be hurting, which can be struggling since you’re not going to the temple on Friday evening, to these of you which can be, , not compromising your religion and worshiping the emperor, there may be hope coming for you. However for these of you which can be compromising, you may have hitched your cart to the improper horse. You might be headed in the direction of, , one thing that isn’t going to be fulfilling, and so I do assume that’s form of the operate of plenty of that judgment and hope within the guide.
WES: I’m so glad that you just used the phrase “unique,” unique allegiance to Jesus. As you had been speaking, I stored desirous about each what was occurring within the first century then, but in addition going again to Israel’s historical past, what led to their captivity in Babylon within the first place, and that was syncretism. They by no means acquired to the purpose, in fact, the place they completely worshiped overseas gods, however they all the time tried to have Yahweh plus these different gods. And I believe one of many issues that ‑‑ to make this a bit bit extra about our time, and now an software, , I believe one of many issues that we’ve tended to do is compartmentalize our lives a lot that we don’t even notice once we’re being idolatrous, particularly on the subject of the world of politics, and we’ve this tendency to assume, properly, that has nothing to do with my faith; that has nothing to do with Jesus. And but we give our allegiance, our devotion, our loyalty to a celebration, to a flag, to an individual, to a politician, no matter, and never realizing the divided allegiance. You used the phrase “compromise,” how a lot we’re compromising our allegiance and loyalty.
So to form of take this guide and say what relevance does this have for us now ‑‑ it’s not the relevance, I don’t assume, that so many need, to take a look at the newspaper and have a look at Revelation, however I believe there’s a method we are able to have a look at Revelation and have a look at the newspaper and say we’ve the tendency to fall into the identical sinful traps. Even followers of Jesus, we’ve the tendency to fall into these similar traps and provides our loyalty to different gods or to ‑‑ I imply, it appears what you’re saying, that Caesar and the worship of Caesar, this imperial cult ‑‑ he doesn’t ever say that particularly, however he says “the throne of Devil,” and it’s ‑‑ it’s a really stark distinction. And so assist us to see the relevance for the way will we take this and use this to assist us navigate our present political or simply cultural world?
GARRETT: Yeah. I’ll add that I believe the imperial cult is so clearly there, notably in chapter 13. Chapter 13 is a satire of the imperial cult. So you may have the primary beast, who comes from the ocean; it has seven heads. Properly, I want John had mentioned it right here in 13, however he saves it to chapter 17, the place he says the seven heads are seven kings. Properly, who would which have been for folks dwelling within the Roman Empire, proper? After which he says everybody, each nation, language, tribe, and tongue, falls right down to worship the beast. Who can defeat the beast? And so they fall earlier than his throne and worship him. Properly, how would they’ve understood that? After all, , they perceive that. After which the second beast comes alongside, and its complete job is to arrange pictures and get the entire world to worship the primary beast, who’re the seven kings. What’s that? That’s imperial cult.
We don’t have time to speak about this, however the quantity 666 is so clearly, I believe, Nero Caesar. It’s type of a reference to a selected king, and so receiving his mark is worshipping him. It’s bowing the knee to Caesar. It’s bowing the knee to those kings. It’s giving in to that imperial cult, so that’s so very clearly right here on this guide. I inform my college students ‑‑ I ask them, “Do you’re feeling just like the church is split over politics?” And so they say, “Completely.” And I say, “It’s nearly as if ‑‑ what if we had a New Testomony guide that spoke on to this,” ? “Oh, yeah, we do.” We’ve simply not learn it or a minimum of not understood it. And I consider that within the unveiling, within the revelation ‑‑ and I believe that’s what Revelation is, is it pulls the curtain again and it reveals us what’s actually happening on this planet, and what Revelation reveals us, when the curtain is pulled again, is to say that considered one of Devil’s greatest methods ‑‑ Devil ‑‑ in the event you comply with chapter 13, it’s really Devil’s throne, however he lets these different kings sit on it, and that’s what it reveals to us. That’s considered one of his greatest methods on this planet, is to make use of worldly thrones to distract us from our worship of the one seated across the throne.
I see this on a regular basis in politics. I see Christians at the moment sharing issues, like ‑‑ , one of many ones that I noticed sharing was, clearly, lately. In current American politics, constructing partitions has been an essential matter and controversial matter, southern border wall. And there was a distinguished pastor from Texas, really, who was happening TV and saying, “There’s even gonna be a wall in heaven; Revelation says so, and so this justifies constructing a wall.” Properly, I don’t wish to get into the politics of that, however as somebody who cares deeply about decoding Revelation properly, did this pastor learn Revelation 21:24‑26 that claims the gates of the wall won’t ever be shut and other people will come into it day and evening? It’s like individuals are even misusing Revelation in a few of these conversations, and it considerations me deeply as a result of I care about decoding Scripture properly.
I believe what Revelation is attempting to do for us is to get the folks of God to develop a form of discernment in order that we are able to see. It’s a go‑and‑do‑likewise technique, in order that in the identical method that Revelation pulls this curtain again and reveals its first‑century viewers the best way to acknowledge what their gaze is being taken off of, , I believe we’re imagined to see that very same factor. And as I go searching our church, , our tradition, is there a extra related textual content than a textual content that addresses complacency because of wealth, , assimilating to tradition and, particularly, idolatry within the type of imperial cult worship, worshiping emperors and coping with battle with outsiders? That’s why I say I’ve been transformed to consider that that is really essentially the most related textual content for our second, and it’s attempting to get us to domesticate these sorts of eyes of religion to see the world clearly, to develop this sort of discernment to see when that is occurring, to see how the satan, Devil, makes use of imperial propaganda to lure folks in, makes use of all of those visible and mythic and in any other case, , methods of drawing folks in, to say, no, you may’t have your consideration given from unique allegiance to the Lamb, and so we do this by means of our witness that our allegiance is just to the one seated on the throne and the Lamb.
And so I believe ‑‑ round election time, I believe we really are compromising our witness. We’re not exhibiting that type of trustworthy witness that’s expressed. So how will we do this? Properly, one is prophetic resistance. It’s a prophecy. It’s talking fact to energy, and no matter politician on no matter aspect of the aisle, we must be the primary folks talking fact. And I don’t know the place we acquired this concept that we can not converse up on one aspect of the aisle or [that means] we assist the opposite aspect of the aisle. No. Faithfulness requires prophetic resistance and witness. That’s what witness is, is we converse for fact when there’s idolatry and injustice, and I believe that’s the imaginative and prescient that Revelation really cares about.
I believe the opposite factor that Revelation is attempting to do is put us on mission. I do know most individuals wouldn’t learn this as a missional textual content, however simply undergo and circle each time that the guide of Revelation mentions “the nations.” God cares what occurs to the nations. And that passage I simply referenced, , the tree of life reveals up there once more in Revelation 21 and 22, and the leaves of the tree are for the therapeutic of the nations. The folks of God now must be taking part within the therapeutic of the nations. So I may go on and on, but it surely’s so good. However sure, I believe that is completely a message for our time, and it might save us a lot heartache in our election season if we’d imbibe this message much more.
WES: Yeah, completely. Amen. To not go too far down this rabbit gap, however while you introduced up in regards to the concept of misusing Revelation to be able to type of assist one aspect of the aisle or the opposite, I used to be requested by any person not too way back in regards to the mark of the beast and what’s the mark of the beast, and do you assume ‑‑ I received’t even point out what it’s that he was referencing ‑‑ “And do you assume this is perhaps the mark of the beast?” And I mentioned, satirically, over the past 2,000 years, there have been so many Christians who’ve really adopted the mark of the beast of their efforts to attempt to keep away from the mark of the beast. They’re so afraid of no matter they assume is perhaps the mark of the beast that they find yourself giving their loyalty and their allegiance to a sophisticated energy to be able to shield them from the so‑known as mark of the beast, and that’s the very reverse of what Revelation is looking us to do. It’s give your allegiance and your loyalty to the Lamb, and while you do this, you don’t have to fret about what the beast is doing, so you aren’t managed by the beast. You aren’t in peril from the beast. And we’re so afraid ‑‑ and that’s why I all the time inform folks, in the event you learn Revelation and also you stroll away from it fearful and extra apt to offer your loyalty to some politician or some political social gathering, you’re studying it improper. You must learn this and be assured of our victory in Christ, I believe.
GARRETT: Sure, completely. Completely. That’s nice, nice recommendation.
WES: Properly, Garrett, as we shut, what sources would you advocate to folks? If folks wish to dive deeper into the guide of Revelation, the place would you level them?
GARRETT: Certain. If somebody had been listening they usually had been, ,
a minister or somebody who actually needed to dig in or needed a useful resource, I believe Craig Koester’s Anchor Bible Commentary on Revelation is the perfect commentary that’s written. It’s humorous, I heard on a podcast the opposite day ‑‑ I used to be listening to David de Silva, who’s a beautiful scholar, and he’s writing his personal commentary on Revelation, and he mentioned, “Even after I end my commentary on Revelation, Craig Koester’s commentary will nonetheless be higher.” He mentioned it’s simply the perfect one on the market. However helpfully, for individuals who aren’t students or ministers needing to learn one thing that thick, he has written a guide known as “Revelation and the Finish of All Issues,” which is his distillation, in 200 pages, of his huge commentary. It’s now in its second version, and, personally, I don’t assume there’s something higher on the market on Revelation than Craig Koester’s “Revelation and the Finish of All Issues.” It nonetheless is perhaps a hair dense for some people, so in the event you’re searching for one other guide, I might say Michael Gorman has a guide known as “Studying Revelation Responsibly,” and he simply does such a superb job on the sensible software. And plenty of the issues we’re discussing, if that was fascinating to you, about politics and form of making use of this message at the moment, I believe Gorman’s guide is possibly the perfect on that. In order that’s form of a smorgasbord there for you, three completely different books, form of relying on the place you’re.
I’ll simply point out one different fascinating guide these days. Dean Flemming has a guide on Foretaste of the Future and studying Revelation as a missional textual content, and I believe it’s very well executed. It’s actually fascinating. For many who learn the guide with ‑‑ who depart with all this worry and trepidation and assume that that is about, , simply all of the judgment and the blood and all that, learn this textual content and also you’ll, I believe, depart with a really completely different view, that really that is about God’s mission for the entire world, and I believe it’s actually highly effective to see it in that mild, as properly.
WES: Improbable. Properly, Brother, thanks a lot for this dialog, and thanks for the work you’re doing within the kingdom.
GARRETT: Thanks for having me. I all the time love nerding out about Revelation. Thanks.
WES: Thanks, Brother.
